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  Experience Rewards
Posted by: Glyff - 09-22-2020, 01:22 PM - Forum: Records - Replies (1104)

Thread for experience rewards starting 9/22/2020

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  Banned and Limited Character Types
Posted by: Storyteller J - 03-06-2019, 10:47 AM - Forum: New player Information - No Replies


There are four types of limits we use in this game: Semi-Limited, Limited, Temporarily Closed, and Banned.

  • Semi-Limited: These types of characters are allowed, but will come with a caveat of some kind. More than likely, these types of characters, due to ongoing plot reasons, will have special rules attached to them, or will come with certain expectations we have for how they will fit into the game's plot. No, we won't railroad you into playing them a certain way, but we also don't want you playing blind, and ending up with a nasty surprise later on because you weren't aware of something going on in the game's metaplot, for example.
  • Limited: These types of characters will require a talk with storytellers. For whatever reason, these types of characters are either considered kill-on-sight to a majority of players, their faction is seen as an enemy, or they just plain won't fit into the game's setting as of yet. If you truly have your heart set on playing a character like this, we can possibly work something out, but don't get your hopes up, and if we do end up saying yes, be advised that you are effectively playing on hard mode. No player may take one of these as their first character. They may only request to play one of these as their second character onward, after they have been active for at least one month with their first character and proving that they are capable of roleplaying on hard mode.
  • Temporarily Closed: We are not accepting sheets for these types of characters at this time. We will probably reopen them later. More often than not, there's just too many of these types of characters in the game, and for the sake of game balance and diversity, they're on hold. Far less commonly, it's for plot reasons. Please don't ask us when they'll be reopened; we promise, you'll be the first to know when they are.
  • Banned: We're not accepting these types of characters until further notice, period. Don't even ask, because the answer will be no.
CLOSED SPLATS:  Wraith (Shut Down)

  • -
  • Lasombra Antitribu: The Sabbat have a very bad reputation in Starke, and for good reason. We have had Lasombra antitribu in the past and Camarilla Lasombra are very much an established thing in WoD, but just be warned that you're going to have to work extra hard to earn the trust of others.
  • Independent Clans (Giovanni, Assamites, and Ravnos): Starke and Jacksonville are Camarilla territory. Even the Anarchs have a near-nonexistent presence. If you're going to play one of these, be ready to at least pay lipservice to the local Camarilla hierarchy, and do not be surprised if you're met with suspicion and mistrust. For Assamites in particular, we had a plot where they went to war with the Tremere in the past, so expect some hostility. Ditto with the Giovanni and Wraiths in general. For Setites, see below.
  • Anarchs: Make sure you know exactly what you’re doing and what you’re getting yourself into if you want to play them. While not even close to having the kind of reputation that the Sabbat have, the Camarilla will not respond well to Anarchs trying to set up shop in their territory and potentially ruining what has otherwise been a good thing going for them. If you want to play an Anarch, know that you'll quickly make enemies of the Camarilla, the rest of the supernaturals of Starke will all but certainly refuse to get involved, and since the Anarchs will be starting from scratch, the deck will be stacked against them at the beginning. But hey, what else is new for them?
  • Tal'Mahe'Ra/Inconnu: We don't really have them too deeply involved in our plot, but the STs are open to ideas.
  • Gargoyle: You'll have to show a solid understanding of the lore surrounding Gargoyles.
  • Salubri: Warrior Caste only, due to the Healer Caste being so rare. Do not let the Tremere find out what you really are. Not even the Prince will be able to protect you if they do.
  • Followers of Set (Antitribu): Really sell us on this. Followers of Set in general are severely mistrusted, and the Amenti consider them kill-on-sight. Failure to be able to convince them that you aren't actually following Set will result in a rather messy early retirement.
  • Tzimisce: Antitribu only. Tzimisce outside of the Sabbat are extremely rare, and most of them are Old Clan. Tzimisce in the Camarilla are virtually nonexistent, and what few that do join them rarely actually stay with them. If you're going to play one of these, be prepared to have to write a real Shakespearian masterpiece of a concept for us to try to sell us on it.
  • Ghouls: Ghouls are blood junkies who will do anything for their next fix, a fact that their domitors routinely exploit to turn them into vitae-addled slaves. This requires a very particular style of playing and being a glutton for punishment. We would prefer to see if you can handle other types of characters first before trying to play one of these. Note that this refers explicitly to characters who are ghouls and nothing else. Other supernatural types that can be ghouled (i.e. with the Ghoul merit) should be done in-game and NOT at character creation, but beware: For pretty much every other splat, becoming a ghoul is a good way to become an utter pariah in your community at best, and at worst, can get you killed.
  • Other Rare Bloodlines (including Laibon): Will be discussed on a case-by-case basis. We know a good plot hook when we hear one, so if you think you have a good idea, pitch it to us. 
Temporarily Closed:
  • N/A
  • Cappodocians: They're extinct. They no longer exist. End of discussion.
  • Healer Salubri: There are only seven of these in the world, and you aren't one of them.
  • Kuei-Jin: Their mechanics are an outdated mess, and they're considered kill-on-sight for the Wu'Tian. No amount of cross-splat will change that, so to avoid a PVP mess and have to deal with their crazy mechanics, they're banned.
  • Sabbat: The Sabbat, for in-game plot reasons, have an absolutely atrocious reputation in this game, and would be considered kill-on-sight to pretty much everyone else.
  • Followers of Set: Main Clan are banned as the Amenti consider them kill-on-sight, and no Prince is going to stick their neck out for a Serpent of all things. There are simply too many Amenti in the game right now to allow Followers of Set and expect it to turn into anything other than a PVP bloodbath.
  • Baali: Yes, we know, there are literal demons in this game. The Fallen have been around long enough for other supernaturals to know that they are entirely different entities than other 'types' of demons. Low-Torment Fallen aren't stupid and know exactly what 'typical' Infernalists are like, and the Infernal Court has little patience for a potential liability, of which the Baali are definitely one, given that the Infernal Court shares Jacksonville with the Camarilla.
  • True Brujah: No Temporis. No. Nada. Zero. We're not going there. And before you ask, no, you can't use the Time Sphere as a Mage to do the same thing.

There are TWO Septs. An Uktena Sept in Starke (the MAIN Sept) and a Bone Gnawer Sept in Jacksonville.

~ Garou

  • Metis: Also called Mules derisively, playing a metis WILL subject your character to IC abuse by some NPCs should they step out of line and is not for the faint of heart. It is not so bad that Metis are unplayable, just know that Metis are not treated fairly in the Nation as a whole. Yes the Sept leaders are fairer than, say, a Fianna sept would be, but what is "fairer" when it's really just degrees of unfairness? By playing a metis you understand that this is Garou on Hard Mode. In Character you might get unfairly punished or punished more harshly. If you play a metis and find that it is not your cup of tea, let the STs know.
  • Glasswalkers: Glasswalkers are often a headache for the STs. Prove to us that you know your lore and can play the tribe well and we may consider it. As a Glasswalker, you would also most likely be under the Bone Gnawer sept.
  • Hakken: Why are they in Starke, Florida, when they're almost never seen outside of Japan? Give us a legitimate reason, one that shows us that you know your lore, and we'll consider it.
  • Stargazers: The Tribe has left the Garou Nation to join the Beast Courts in Asia. However, if you can understand that situation and play to it in addition to an excellent backstory, you might be allowed to play one.
  • Wendigo: Their inherent animosity to a large majority of the population of the area makes this a tough sell. They're not as bad as the red talons so this tribe is only limited for now.
Temporarily Closed:
  • Lupus: The Lupus Breed is dying, we're capped out on Lupus right now.
  • Anything from Rage Across the Heavens is banned.
  • Black Spiral Dancers/Skindancers/Fomori: They're kill-on-sight for the entire game, no exceptions.
  • Cub: St Fiat, as well, players likely wont be able to go on mission or even see other supernaturals and players, thus limiting rp potential.
  • Red Talons: Their hostility to all non-Garou - including mundane humans - makes them ill-suited to this setting.
  • White Howlers, Bunyips, Croatans and any other "Destroyed" or "Lost" tribes: We are not bringing them back. They are gone for good.
  • Triat-Tainted: Any character already tainted by the Wyld, Weaver or Wyrm are banned. Why would you want to play a character that has no mind of its own? That makes zero sense. These make great NPCs, but terrible player characters. This includes Drones, Cyberdogs, pretty much any hunted camp and Spiral Dancers.
  • Camps: Banned at Character Creation. We cannot accept Cliaths who start in Camps. Make this your goal if you'd like, and you can earn it in game.
  • Fae Blooded Merit: We're not dealing with cross-splat characters at this time. It is a massive headache for STs. All Werewolf the Apocalypse PCs will remain WtA.

~ Fera (CLOSED Until Further Notice)

  • Ratkin: The Army of the Wyld. Why they are here? Because they, in more than a few cases, are extremists and don't fear utilizing their so called "asymmetric warfare", better known as terrorism.
  • Khan Bastet: The Khan are near extinct and are not easy to play. Prove to us that you understand the lore, give us a very good reason why a Khan should even be in Starke, Florida and we may consider it.
  • Balam, Celican and Simba Bastet: They're either already considered defunct or just too violently xenophobic to fit into the game. 
  • Nagah: They operate in packs of 2 or 3, without exception. If they're here in Starke, it's because they're here on a mission, and that means we'd necessarily have to make brand new NPCs, and that's just a logistical nightmare that we don't want to deal with.
  • Ananas:i ST fiat.
  • Rokea: Rokea are aggressive and violently xenophobic against anything to do with the Unsea.  
  • Ajaba: Seeing one outside of Africa is already like seeing a leprechaun riding a unicorn while drinking from the Holy Grail. Seeing one in Starke, Florida just breaks all willing suspension of disbelief.
  • Kami: These days, Kami are extremely rare, and the few Kami that do exist are pretty much all animals rather than humans, anyway.
  • Wyrm Changing Breeds: No need to even ask about it. They are inherently Wyrm-Tainted and are usually KOS for Garou and other Changing Breeds making them ill-suited for this game.
  • Kitsune: Due to actions of past Kitsune, they are no longer welcome to the area.
  • Hengeyokai: With the current pcs in play, adding this system is a lot of logistical hassle we just don't want to deal with right now
  • Siberakh: They have no reason to be in Florida and have no reason to be involved in anything to do with the Garou Nation. 
  • "Destroyed" or "Lost" Fera breeds: Self-explanatory. They're gone. We're not bringing them back.

~ Kinfolk (CLOSED Until Further Notice)
Uktena or Bone Gnawer Kinfolk are highly recommended.

  • Allowed Tribes Other Than Uktena/BG: Refer to the Garou list. Give us a very VERY good reason and backstory as to why a Kinfolk of these tribes might end up in an Uktena/BG sept and we might consider it.
  • Lost Kinfolk: This is a royal headache for STs. We'd like to see proof you know your lore before allowing a Lost Kinfolk concept in play.
  • "Special" Kinfolk: While Kinfolk are of course allowed to be played in this game, what we mean by 'special' Kinfolk are Kinfolk who also know Hedge Magick, have Gnosis or True Faith or Numina, etc. Such Kinfolk are exceptionally rare in the World of Darkness, and the in-game Sept already has several of them. Any more, and the Garou Nation - or worse, the Black Spiral Dancers  or Pentex - will start to take notice. 
  • Kinfolk of Hakken, Red Talon, Stargazers & Wendigo: There is no reason for these tribes' Kinfolk to be in Starke/Jacksonville.
  • Lupus Kinfolk: We're not allowing mundane literal wolves as PCs.

  • N/A.
  • Technocrats: Further to the success of allowing a few Void Engineer PCs in the game, a project is currently on going to try and have playable Technocrats of all factions. Players who will take part in this 'experiment' were already contacted by the Mage ST. If you haven't been contacted by the Mage ST about this project, please do not submit or request a Technocrat character concept.
  • Widderslainte: They have the potential of becoming Nephandi but can still choose a different path. KOS to the Technocrats but most Mystic Mage will still hear them out first.
Temporarily Closed:
  • Technocrats: See above.
  • Widderslainte: Spot already taken by a PC.
  • Marauders: Way too difficult to work into the game with our current mechanics.
  • Nephandi: Almost nothing in the entire World of Darkness is more kill-on-sight than they are.

Please note that the Changeling Core C20 is only thing to be used for a First Changeling character NOT the Player's Guide.

  • N/A.
  • Nunnehi: Their mechanics and lore differ heavily from their European equivalents, so please show us that you know these and are capable of playing them correctly.
  • Menehune: Extremely rare in this part of the world, and they tend to shun technology and civilization in general, so please show us that you know your lore and your history, and can provide a reason for why they would be here.
  • Hsien: See above. They're almost never seen outside of the Middle Kingdom, so again, show us that you know your lore and your history, and can provide a valid reason as to why they're in Starke, Florida of all places.
Temporarily Closed:
  • N/A.
  • Inanimae: Way too difficult to properly integrate into the game, given that they almost never interact with anybody but themselves, and what little interactions they do have with others are rarely the good kind.
  • Thallain: Would be an utter nightmare for the STs, and you probably wouldn't have very many opportunities to interact with other characters anyway, at least not in any way that doesn't end in immediate violence.
  • Dauntain: See above.

  • Seeming - Childling: It has become an issue with the Childling seeming being played as children IC. The CTD ST team has decided to ban the seeming.

  • N/A.
  • Cabiri: Their mechanics are notoriously difficult even by WoD standards. We won't try to stop you if you want to play one, but speak with the Mummy STs first so that you know what to expect.
Temporarily Closed:
  • Sefekhi: Overpopulated compared to other Amenti dynasties. They have 3 as of this writing while some still have none.
  • Shuankh-sen: Beholden to nobody and nothing except themselves, which has earned them a fairly bad reputation amongst the Reborn. Allowing them would be a nightmare for the STs, given how many Reborn would want their head on a plate, and not without reason.

  • Raveners: They're allowed, but be forewarned that the current makeup of the Infernal Court will not hold much sympathy for you or your goals, and if you go around telling other types of supernaturals that you want to destroy all of creation, well... good luck?
  • Earthbound: I'm very tempted to just ban them outright. Aside from their mechanics being very difficult to integrate with the game, the Earthbound are inherently monstrous and unspeakably evil, but I guess if a player can come up with a very, very good justification for how it could work, I'm willing to hear them out. After all, it is technically possible for a player character to become one in certain circumstances.

Temporarily Closed:
  • N/A.
  • Angels (Heavenly Host): No. Just, no. Really, this should go without saying, but I know someone will ask if I don't put it here.

  • NA

  • Wayward: - Massive amounts of Justification needed, and Time as a player to observer the play style before it will even be considered. - This one is so limited assume its banned unless I ask / offer.
  • Bystander - There are many other rolls in hunter and the other splats this is effectively just an aware person and is a primarily social character *note  you are limited to the amount of characters you can have and how long it take to gain your second character on the server before you ask Make very very sure this is what you want. 
Temporarily Closed:
  • N/A.
  • Demon Hunter X: A previous ST allowed them into the game, but any further character from this splat will require a serious talk with the Hunter ST, so that the player can demonstrate knowledge both of the lore and what will be expected of them. ( There is one that has been grandfathered in at this time but will not be open past that)


  • N/A.
  • Risen: Risen require a whole different style of play than normal Wraiths. Show us that you know the mechanics and accept the challenges involved.
Temporarily Closed:
  • Orpheus: Orpheus play entirely differently than 'normal' Wraiths they are not banned from the game but currently with ST restraints they are not open.
  • Spectres: Banned because their inherent hostility to... well... everything makes them ill-suited to a game like this.

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  Character Rank
Posted by: stimtheone - 12-28-2018, 01:39 PM - Forum: Starke Florida - No Replies

It's hard to really rank characters in all these splats, but once you reach certain points you should know that the game changes. This is world of darkness, and while the grunts run around killing things, stealing, and generally doing things purely physical no matter how social or mental they are, when you reach a certain point your character will be seen differently and they will act differently.

This is by no means a restriction, or rule, or any sort of arbitrary limit. These are guide lines, and while following them won't necessarily be good, not following them might not give the optimal experience.

The ranks:

0-100 XP: New kid

You might think 100 xp is a lot. It's really not. At this point you're still new, fresh, and learning the ropes. You might be an adept mage, a well rounded kindred or an unstoppable sefekhi, but at this point the game is all but inexistent to you. Your activities will be the most lowly in terms of the world, you will clean up messes, take down stragglers, and generally see it all from street level. Make no mistake, you are a capable person, but you're still on the board instead of AT the board.

100-200 XP: Player

Again, you might think that 100 or even 150 XP is a lot, but it really is not. Skills will be higher, backgrounds better, you might be starting to have a real stash of items from all the places you've been. That does not matter. When you're here you start to see the game. You start to see the players, and here is when you start to discuss fineries. You know the places where it's at and who to call for anything. You might not know about all the splats in detail but you know they're there and what they're good at.

200-300 XP: At the board

You're no longer restricted to knowing the game. Like a mage taking his first steps into manipulating a sphere, you can start making moves in the big game, and oh boy is it big. At this level it's not unheard of for you to send other PC's to do something, or gently plant an idea to have a situation arise. The big guys start taking notice of you, for good or for bad. This is the point where sudden death becomes an actual threat, as why eliminate pieces when you can eliminate a player? Watch your back

300-400 XP: Renowned

This point marks when people of lower tiers start to learn of you before meeting you. You're a subject of discussion, either to avoid, eliminate or manipulate. You no longer make half-assed attempts at moving the community, you DO, and they listen. By this point your protections should be on point and your resources should be very well rounded, able to take on at least indirectly something of quite grand design. You're a name, and that brings benefits as well as dangers.

400-500 XP: Master

Subtle is what you have to be to stay here for long. People KNOW you often before they move in, and your renown has spread a great distance. People might come to this city only to seek your help or kill you flat. You've got a lot of people on call, some players themselves. If YOU take to the street, then shit has truly hit the fan

500-600 XP: Legend

If there was any question that you have gone to the limit, this is where that question stops being asked. You might be a master mage, a very old or experienced kindred, an elder werewolf, or a mummy that has seen a lot of judges... but people respect you, and go to you only when it's one step from the end of days. At this step do not expect going to street level to be a regular... if safe... occurrence. You might spend half your time trying to not get swamped by your own power

>600 XP: Unplayable

There is a time when all adventures must come to an end, when all characters must breathe, look back and exclaim "What a ride!". You should prepare for this during your whole stint as a legend. You must retire at this point, as your character will be so strong that anything will be butter for their existence as a hot knife. But do not despair! Death is not their intended end as you character might just be retired as an NPC to do that helping along. And before you go we might let you enjoy your TRUE LEGEND status with one last great run to show em how it's done, perhaps with some abilities thrown in for you to really just enjoy them one last time. But if your character got here and is still looking good, consider yourself to have won the game.

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  The Starke Ledger
Posted by: Storyteller J - 11-09-2018, 01:27 PM - Forum: Starke Florida - Replies (1)

An Early Thanksgiving Miracle

An extraordinary event happened at Starke Regional Medical Center earlier today. Ada Hendricks, 14, suddenly sat up and asked for Coca-Cola after being declared legally braindead for more than eighty hours, following a tragic car accident while walking home from Bradford High School.

"I am not at liberty to break doctor-patient privilege, but in all my years as a physician, I have never seen anything like this," Dr. Mallory Conrad of the SRMC Intensive Care Unit said. "We were trying to convince her parents that it would be in their daughter's best interests to end life support. When we came back to her room, she was trying to speak through her respirator mask."

The National Institute of Health has already expressed interest in Hendricks' case.

"Our daughter is alive!" Ada's mother, Mrs. Melissa Hendricks said. "Praise the Lord. That's... that's all I can say. Today God gave me my daughter back."

Both her family and the medical staff at SRMC requested that the media respect Miss Hendricks' privacy, while more tests are being run to ensure her long term recovery. A lawyer representing the family said Miss Hendricks will speak to the media if and when she is feeling well enough to answer questions.

Ada Hendricks, 14 years old, was struck by a car driven by a man believed to be under the influence of narcotics Monday night. Liam Flannery is being held on $50,000 bond for driving under the influence, leaving the scene of an accident resulting in bodily harm, endangering the welfare of a minor, and possession of illegal narcotics.

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  Monday Morning News Article
Posted by: Amanda - 10-01-2018, 03:30 AM - Forum: Starke Florida - No Replies

Mysterious String of Disappearances Lead to Police Investigation
By: Izabelle Kendall

On the Evening of September 29th, 2018 roughly a dozen students disappeared from a series of clubs in Jacksonville Florida. Students from Jacksonville University and The University of North Florida disappeared late into the night. Friends of these students have insisted they were all outstanding students who wouldn't wish to run away. The dozen missing person cases has lead to a call to action by both universities and by local parents. The police investigations are being lead by Detective Maxwell Clemons of the Jacksonville Police Department. A hotline has been opened at 1-800-###-#### for any information about these missing students. A reward of up to $1,000 will be awarded to any information that leads to them being found.

(Below are a list of Names and pictures of the 12 missing students)

Bertha Watt, Korey Holcomb, Chandler Eaton, Ira Peterson, Hamzah Amos, Tolga Pollard, Mairead Conner, Tiegan Whitehouse, Leigh Villanueva, Iosif Macleod, Eben Dunkley, Hallie Bates

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  A mysterious letter
Posted by: Glyff - 08-23-2018, 01:06 PM - Forum: Starke Florida - No Replies

Madeline, William, and Trish all receive the same letter.  It just appears before them suddenly the night before.  Like the flash ran in and left it.

"Ogram Surplus.  6:50pm tomorrow night.  There is a young woman in danger, and she is in need of your help.  If you have an open mind, and want to save one who cannot save herself, come to this place at the noted time.  Bring an open mind"

It is not signed with anything save a specific marking.  One some of you would know.  An Ankh.

Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
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  Getting Started.
Posted by: Glyff - 08-08-2018, 06:34 AM - Forum: New player Information - No Replies

Looking to play?  Well here's what to do.

FIRST, read the Code of Conduct.

Second, read up on the setting, Here, if you like the setting, think of a concept for us.

Use the Character Creation rules to create and submit a character using This form

Once your character is submitted an ST will contact you to iron out details and correct any mistakes.

Make sure to read House Rules regarding your character type.

Once your character is accepted you will be allowed to join the game.  Have fun!

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  Primer: Starke Florida
Posted by: Glyff - 08-02-2018, 07:35 AM - Forum: Starke Florida - No Replies

Starke Florida: Primer

Starke Florida is placed between the larger cities of Jacksonville and Gainesville.  It is currently the front line of a war between the Sabbat and the Werewolves of Jacksonville.  With the Glasswalkers being a major power player in Jacksonville, and the Sabbat being largely in charge of Gainesville.

The current state of the game is one of change.  We are providing a small description of the current 'situation' for each prospecting players character.

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  The Shadows over the South
Posted by: Glyff - 07-31-2018, 11:34 AM - Forum: Starke Florida - No Replies

Starke Florida, Home to just over five thousand mortals.  This idyllic little town has seen much change in the last few years, with the great recession in the past.

What the mortals do not know is that things move in the night, and their home is the front line of a supernatural war.  The Sabat, vile vampire fanatics, struggle to wrest control of the area from the Garou, the tribal, territorial chosen of Gaia herself, while countless smaller powers vie for power and safety in a constantly changing landscape...

You are one of those supernaturals.  Be you vampire, werewolf, mortal hunter or immortal mummy.  You are a shadow, fighting a shadow war for the fate of humanity...

What will happen in the Shadows Over The South?

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  Discord IC posting structure
Posted by: Glyff - 07-28-2018, 08:07 PM - Forum: Starke Florida - No Replies

When you are In Character in the game we need to use the same methods to explain what we are doing, for this purpose we have created a set of rules for how you write in the IC rooms.

These rules are used to make it easy for us to see what is what quickly, so we can rapidly process each player's actions.

OOC or Out of Character: The First thing you need to be able to do is differentiate between in character and out of character, to do this you use Parenthesis.

In character
(Out of Character)

Double Parenthesis are used as answers to questions asked by the GM.

((GM Question))
((Player Answer))

Actions: The next thing you will need to be able to do is encapsulate what your character is physically doing.  This is done with double colons.


Speech: When your character speaks you should put it in quotes, so that everyone knows he is saying something out loud.

"I get it" ::He said.::

Dice: In order to act, you have to be able to roll dice.  This is done with the /r command in chat.  The code for doing so is as follows.

/r xd10 >Df1 #action description

/r is for /roll.

xd10 stands for X 10 sided dice.

>=Df1 tells the roller to count successes, where D is the difficulty, and 1 is a failure.  If the roll cannot fail, remove the f1 from the code.

#tells the roller to ignore everything after the hash, so you can describe what the roll is for.

Together they will look like this.

/r 3d10>=6f1 #perception+awareness

Alternatively you can use > instead of >=, subtracting 1 from the difficulty, the results will be the same, but you must adjust down to compensate.

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